Wednesday, October 14, 2009

A Peek Into the Reek, Volume 2: Open Carry

Yesterday the GunnySphere was all a-crackle with the discharges of an "Open Carry - Is Ya Fer It, Er Is Ya Agin' It?" storm. That set the rats running in their cages at the virtual MANPquarters, and ones and zeroes were thusly exchanged:

Atom Smasher (1:49:46 PM): I just equated Open Carry advocates with Gay Pride supporters on Jay's blog. This may become interesting.

MeatAxe (2:33:38 PM): lets see where this goes...

Atom Smasher (2:36:41 PM): indeed

MeatAxe (2:36:59 PM): interesting thought experiment: lets pretend open carry is legal in all 50 states and nobody really cares. think of it like rural Arizona or something, writ large. would you OC?

Atom Smasher (2:38:12 PM): totally dependent on where I am

Atom Smasher (2:38:27 PM): hiking or outdoorsy or Montana, sure

Atom Smasher (2:38:43 PM): but in crowds, at work, the store? no

Atom Smasher (2:38:51 PM): for the same reasons I outlined - basic politeness

MeatAxe (2:39:03 PM): sure, but in my thought experiment, nobody cares

Atom Smasher (2:39:05 PM): tactically yes, it's an advantage too

Atom Smasher (2:39:11 PM): hmmmm

MeatAxe (2:39:13 PM): get your own thought experiment if you want people to be woossies.

Atom Smasher (2:39:15 PM): no one cares...

Atom Smasher (2:39:20 PM): hmm

MeatAxe (2:39:37 PM): lets take the emotional reaction bit out of the equation  

Atom Smasher (2:39:39 PM): then I think my fallback = your point of tactical flexibility if the zombies come

Atom Smasher (2:39:54 PM): why advertise?

Atom Smasher (2:40:07 PM): hell, I'm thinking about getting a two shot derringer and making a boot holster

Atom Smasher (2:40:17 PM): my latest insanity

MeatAxe (2:40:22 PM): its a cool idea.

MeatAxe (2:40:34 PM): id be very interested in the finish on a gun that you can keep in your boot and not rust. or suffer any kind of humidity and sweat induced damage to internal or external parts

Atom Smasher (2:40:38 PM): the cool factor is indeed high

MeatAxe (2:42:25 PM): anyway, on the subject of OC -- you know me pretty well. On most things, Im a pretty pragmatic, reasonable guy

Atom Smasher (2:42:41 PM): (jebus, that's gotta hurt - .45LC

MeatAxe (2:42:46 PM): is there any advantage that accrues to me because people can see my gun in a holster?

Atom Smasher (2:43:13 PM): thinking...

MeatAxe (2:43:26 PM): in the immediate sense -- that guy has a gun  

MeatAxe (2:43:39 PM): which means that, like I said, any advantage of surprise is gone

Atom Smasher (2:43:53 PM): if someone was about to do a Bad Thing, he might move on. Doubtful he'd change his lifestyle.

MeatAxe (2:43:59 PM): in a situation where a bad guy is surveying the crowd about to make a move.

MeatAxe (2:44:07 PM): its more likely he'd shoot me first

Atom Smasher (2:44:11 PM): if he really wants to do a Bad Thing, he might hit you with a sockful of pennies first

MeatAxe (2:44:24 PM): at which point, he's got my gun too.

Atom Smasher (2:44:27 PM): right

MeatAxe (2:44:38 PM): i dunno.

Atom Smasher (2:44:44 PM): I'd say that it's a split.

Atom Smasher (2:44:59 PM): I tend to lean more towards the "concealed is better" int hat hypothetical.

Atom Smasher (2:45:08 PM): because you still have all your options  

MeatAxe (2:45:18 PM): take out the emotional response from spectators, i think its a landslide for the concealed guy in my thought experiment

Atom Smasher (2:45:27 PM): you can defend. you can run. you can inimidate. you can stop the Bad Guy.

MeatAxe (2:45:41 PM): or you can curl up in the foetal position and weep.

Atom Smasher (2:45:45 PM): sure

MeatAxe (2:45:50 PM): and backshoot the varmint when he ain't looking....  

MeatAxe (2:45:55 PM): (im just sayin)

MeatAxe (2:46:21 PM): me personally, i tend to conduct a running security audit of everyone around me

MeatAxe (2:46:28 PM): this may be why large crowds make me nervous

Atom Smasher (2:46:34 PM): I have done that ever since 9/11

MeatAxe (2:46:42 PM): and its possibly an outgrowth of having kids too  

MeatAxe (2:47:12 PM): with Fang, Im constantly aware of things he might climb on or fall off of or run into.

MeatAxe (2:47:28 PM): so Im not only watching everyone around me,Im watching everyone around him too

MeatAxe (2:48:48 PM): anyway

MeatAxe (2:48:53 PM): running security audit

MeatAxe (2:49:10 PM): and I think that Im unusually paranoid but it works for me  

MeatAxe (2:49:32 PM): I’m on the playground, and I find myself adjusting my position so I can keep an eye on someone in my peripheral vision who is moving behind me

MeatAxe (2:49:41 PM): it makes me happy to do that

MeatAxe (2:50:09 PM): so for me, at least, the only reason to OC is convenience in holster fit.

MeatAxe (2:50:20 PM): or you have a really nice gun that you like to show off  

Atom Smasher (2:50:33 PM): it would allow me to carry my favorite gun - a big SA revolver. I'd feel very very comfortable with that on my hip or leg

MeatAxe (2:50:46 PM): well, you know, i was at hoffmans in Newington this weekend  

MeatAxe (2:51:08 PM): and one of the counter guys has a single action revolver in an IWB holster at about 2 oclock

MeatAxe (2:51:25 PM): i think it might have been one of the Ruger Vaqueros with the birdshead grips

Atom Smasher (2:51:30 PM): IWB?

Atom Smasher (2:51:34 PM): geez

Atom Smasher (2:51:38 PM): taht's a gut puncher

MeatAxe (2:51:47 PM): he was kind of a skinny guy

MeatAxe (2:51:50 PM): but it totally worked.

MeatAxe (2:52:03 PM): i mean, really, you couldn't see a thing if he pulled his shirt over it

MeatAxe (2:52:14 PM): i dunno what kind of holster he uses, but I can call and find out if you like?

Atom Smasher (2:52:25 PM): sure thing

MeatAxe (2:52:38 PM): OK. ill wait till my officemate is out of hte room

Atom Smasher (2:52:40 PM): that would rock

MeatAxe (2:52:57 PM): no problem

Atom Smasher (2:54:10 PM): but overall I believe I agree with you

Atom Smasher (2:54:35 PM): all else being equal, in a crowded siuation, i.e. urban-ish, I'd still want to carry concealed

Atom Smasher (2:55:18 PM): in the sticks or boonies,the advantage of easier carry would slghtly trump the advantage of concealment

Atom Smasher (2:55:32 PM): it's intersting

Atom Smasher (2:56:03 PM): the OC guys seem to be denying the fact that concealment carries with it some tactical advantage

Atom Smasher (2:58:07 PM): at all

MeatAxe (2:59:31 PM): I guess some people can't be part right

MeatAxe (2:59:34 PM): they have to be all right  

Atom Smasher (3:00:36 PM): like i told my boss Tony, years ago

Atom Smasher (3:01:44 PM): "would you rather be openly gay with your BF in the restaurant and have people stare at you and cluck their tongues, or just be gay and have it not be a big deal because really, it's no big deal?"

MeatAxe (3:01:55 PM): im not sure why, after years of being an adult in america people are so astonished when they have to pick between a set of poor options.

Atom Smasher (3:02:05 PM): we're babies

Atom Smasher (3:02:20 PM): no one wants to compromise

MeatAxe (3:02:22 PM): did the magic fairy move us all to Perfect Fantasy Land when I wasn't looking?

MeatAxe (3:02:35 PM): lets cozy up to reality, maybe.

MeatAxe (3:02:36 PM): not you.

MeatAxe (3:02:44 PM): them.

Atom Smasher (3:03:14 PM): me too sometimes

Atom Smasher (3:03:52 PM): I get rolling on some really good rant about work some time, you'll be rolling your eyes thinking "uh, dude, most people don;t like their job - get over yourself."

MeatAxe (3:04:56 PM): a good rant is entertaining if phrased well. personality goes a long way. people do argue that the 2A is done a service if people see others carrying firearms but otherwise being "jut folks." getting a haircut, shopping for groceries, taking their kids to a soccer game.

MeatAxe (3:05:16 PM): and I suppose that could be true.

Atom Smasher (3:05:26 PM): it certainly could be

MeatAxe (3:05:49 PM): but i suspect its more likely that those who see that and don't care have ALREADY made the connection

MeatAxe (3:06:04 PM): and those who are alarmed are too alarmed to make the connection and that if you want to work on the antis or just people who aren't really thinking about it, there are better ways to do it


Anonymous said...

Good arguments.
CCW gives you a tactical advantage.
OC, if done well, can make gun carry casual again, but you have to get over the shock first.
Personally I'd say get to know them, then invite them over for shooting. That way, they've already decided you're a decent sort, who happens to own, and possibly carry, a gun, as opposed to a gun carrier that Must Not Be Approached Or Talked To.

Another advantage to CCW, to everyone around you, or not around you, is the wolves have to guess where they can misbehave.
I like to equate CCW with Russian Roulette for Thugs. If you mug THIS guy, or assault a woman in his presence, are you going to get shot? OC, you lose that. The crowd that doesn't happen to have any armed citizens in it loses that.

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